A1 Question #5
Well kids :) I haven't put up a question for a while so I need to repent. So, let me say...on the topic of consciousness... I think the most fascinating thing about this unit is the idea that we have a two-track mind. Our realization of an action seems to lag behind the actual action itself. In other words, by the time you realize you have told your body to do something, a message had already been sent to do what you want your body to do. Sounds crazy I know. But it seems that things happen without us even being aware of it. As I ponder this concept, I can't help but think of the concept of free-will. As humans, we pride ourselves in our ability to make conscious decisions but now it appears that an action can take place without us even being aware of it. So, what implications does this have on the concept of free-will and personal responsibility? How can we be responsible for an action when that action occured without us even realizing it? Anyway, think about this and help me resolve this conundrum.
posted by Mr. Fong | 3:36 PM
16 Comments:
uhh..??? I would think that it still is our own conscious decision because we still tell ourselves what to do and what not to do, but we just cant control the process in which your body tells itself to move? But were still the one thinking of what to do or else we would just be sitting there like a blob if that makes sense?
The two-track mind system does not take away our free will or our personal responsibility.
Whenever we talk about the subject of a two-track mind I always think about my mother's 'auto pilot.' This happens when she is driving. When she gets on a road that is familiar to her she will simple start driving to that place that she usually drives to when on that road. Very annoying when she use to drive me to school and she would magically take me to Lindon where she works. She made the decision to drive and some part of her decided to go on a road and path where she was familiar with, however, she is still responsible for us being late.
Concerning the question 'How can we be responsible for an action when that action occurred without us even realizing it?' I would just like to say that we are responsible for anything that we do. During choir tour in Seattle I shared a bed with a friend of mine. While this was happening I learned that she moves around a lot in her sleep. She didn't know that she was moving but she still suffered the consequences. :)
This confuses me... I think that if you don't realize a action then you should not be responsible for that action. But still if it is something that you should be responsible for... its a hard call.
i think that when it comes to making a decision you make it weather you conscious or not and is your responsibility to suffer on the consequences bought about this action that at one point you processed it in your brain whether being in a conscious state of mind or unconscious...
I think that if our body reacts to everything before it happens that "free will" is different. If we aren't making a conscious decision to do domething then we aren't controling anything, therefore we don't have a choice. One the other hand, if our body makes the good choice, then it's ok, in the minds of people. Buddha is believed to have said something on the lines of having free will and we make our choices, just not the punishment for our actions whether they're good or bad. That's where faith comes into play. I'll leave the tough questions to him...
(this blog was kinda hard to follow..I'll answer it the best I can) but I totally agree with sensationhappiness. I really liked your pilot analogy. But I have to say that I don't completely agree with it being related to "free will" if you're not consciously aware that your brain is sending out movement signals to your body.
Hmmm....very very interesting. It is mind-boggling to think that we basically live our lives with a slight delay in everything we perceive. Sometimes I feel like my brain is just this hyper-efficient mega machine just controlling my body and even my mind to an extent, without my knowledge. I think that underlying everything I am aware of, there is this "animal" of sorts inside me that acts purely out of instinct. This sort of dual nature to humanity is what makes us an interesting species. There are so many elements deep within us that somehow make their way up to our conscious decisions - which makes free will an interesting subject. Are we truly free? Or are our decisions already made for us by the efficient beast within, eluding our awareness until these decisions bubble up to the surface? And perhaps more importantly can our conscious mind choose to ignore these fundamental urges in the name of some arcane emotion (namely love)? I think that it can, I hope that it can.
Well i think we're still responsible. But first off what is with all of these "are you STILL responsible questions?!?! what is psychology, the science of finding a scapegoat for your actions? ok so your still responsible because this action that happens without you thinking, is subject to change from person to person. if your a person who's never been threatened and always has someone else do your dirty work, than you probably will not cultivate a violent pre conscious reaction. where as if you live in the slums and people try to mug you every day you've probably got this preconscious defense to a science. so where does responsibility come in? This reaction shows who you are if you are prone to killing at the slightest hint than you might do it sometime, and your in trouble, but why do you have this habit? i think its because you've cultivated it weather you know it or not it might just be from being agressive all the time who knows. You reap what you sow or something like that...
I don't think these things necessarily go hand in hand. We tell our legs to walk and eyes to blink without thinking about it. But this taking away our free-will (if that's what your asking) would only happen if we have a mental illness, in my opinion. We wouldn't subconciously rob a bank becuase we're desperate for money. That's completely our choice to act so irrational. We would still be held accountable. Could you imagine killers and criminals being set free because they claimed they did it againsnt their will and couldn't control their body? Crazy right?
-Dallas Lyman
I think you still have the free will, because for one the reaction is only slightly delayed. For an example that we still have free will take CSI or something on the lines of crime. A woman is standing in front of a man who just admitted that he murdered her husband and children. In her unstable and crazed condition she unconsciously picks up a gun that happens to be next to her. The cops finally come and tell her to put the gun down. By now shes conscious that she has the gun, and now she must choose through free will whether she with shoot or not.
At least that is what I think I understand from the question.
I believe that we still have our own free will, even though our brain may sub-consciously already have other "ideas." Our brain may have ideas already sketched out of something we may decide to do, but I think that the rest of the body also understands that, even if it doesn't act on it super quickly.
That last post was BY: AMANDA AUSTIN :)
The idea of having a two-track mind where you are actually doing something before you realize it is really fascinating to me. Thinking about it, you could see it as you are "programmed" into doing everything that you do and think, or maybe you really do just have free will, I can't say. I also think this could tie into our last question being: is what we perceive real? as you cannot be 100% sure that what you experience is real and that we have free will, we just have out beliefs and feelings.
I think we still have to own up to our decisions. Whether it is subconcious or concious we still made that decision. It doesn't take away our free will, or anything like that. It is just what it is. I think that to an extent.. we have to be aware of what our subconcious is thinking about. our "mind" (wink wink) is somewhat aware of what we're doing so that makes it our decision still. So we should still have to own up to our actions.
I think that we are still just as responsible for our actions and have just as much free will with a two track mind as we do with a one track mind. I think that we subconsciously make decisions concerning our environment and that when our minds make these decisions they are just following patterns of our behavior. For instance if all you do is play violent video games then, I think your brain could subconsciously cause you to commit acts of violence. But is this still your fault. I would have to say that yes it is.
I dont understand how this takes away our free will. For example you stated,"a message had already been sent to do what you want your body to do.". You just said our body does what we want it to do... how does this take away our free will......
kohler
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